Hate Wanted: Understanding BMW

"MrPseudonym" (mrpseudonym) 05/11/2015 at 10:42 • Filed to: BMW, Porsche, I Don't Understand, Not trolling, Promise

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^Fetish^

So, I’ve been wondering this for several years now:

What’s with the BMW fetish? Also, for that matter, let’s add in Porsche, too.

Seriously people, why do you like BMW so much? I walk into threads of comments about these things and hear people throwing around seemingly random numbers, and apparently that means something? All they do is make sedans and sedan-like coupes (excluding the i3 and i8, and those ugly crossovers that everyone wants to disown). What’s the big deal? Why’s everyone excited about BMWs?!

Also, about Porsche. James May is right, all you want is an older thing. Older is better for some reason, with you Porsche people. I don’t understand. Please, show me your ways.

EDIT: This is why people say to be good to BMWs, eh? Okay, let me present some facts:

All of the BMWs on the road that I’ve seen are sedans, coupes, or crossovers. The sedans and coupes look really similar, except for the Z4 (I’ve seen a few).

The i3 doesn’t count when talking about BMW cars, as it is an electric vehicle. The i8 counts, however, because it’s a hybrid.

I still don’t understand why you all like BMWs.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > MrPseudonym 05/11/2015 at 10:46

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Everybody with a BMW fetish has been secretly bribed with lederhosen for their support. Which, I can’t really criticize, because lederhosen are the shizz.

R Saldana [|Oo|======|oO|] - BTC/ETH/LTC Prophet > MrPseudonym 05/11/2015 at 10:47

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There are no automakers past or present who have made so many fun to drive, rear wheel drive, sometimes manual, great sounding, decently powered coupes and sedans besides BMW.

MultiplaOrgasms > MrPseudonym 05/11/2015 at 10:48

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Because RWD on almost all models, even the smallest hatchback (lets pretend the 2AT does not exist k), because straight six awesome, because generally good cars reliability aside.

CalzoneGolem > MrPseudonym 05/11/2015 at 10:51

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BMW does nothing for me.

NimbyFenceCo > MrPseudonym 05/11/2015 at 10:51

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Because in addition to the entire car feeling perfect, I used to get so many compliments about my ‘01 E46 330i (when it was new) I thought the dealer paid them. It was the perfect car (until it went out of warranty). God I miss that car. But not the repair bills.

thebigbossyboss > R Saldana [|Oo|======|oO|] - BTC/ETH/LTC Prophet 05/11/2015 at 10:52

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and then my friend needed a new headlight for his BMW. $500 later....

spanfucker retire bitch > MrPseudonym 05/11/2015 at 10:53

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Back in my day, trolling meant something.

E92M3 > MrPseudonym 05/11/2015 at 10:53

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I used to think the same way. Then I started tracking my S2000. These status symbol coupes and sedans were not only passing me, they were SECONDS a lap faster. They must be tuned I thought to myself. A few months later I had a business trip in Germany. I decided this may be the only chance I get to be here, I’m going to rent something epic for the autobahn. Everyone kept insisting I get an M3. So I did, just to see what all the fuss was about. After a week in that car I was in love. As soon as I returned home I sold the S2000 and bought one. I’m on my 2nd M3 now. Moral of the story is: you’ll never understand until you drive one.

BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather > MultiplaOrgasms 05/11/2015 at 10:53

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So let’s throw out the FWD model and take reliability out of the equation? Sounds like pretty big blinders. And now that half of their lineup has turbo 4s, and the only I6s left are of the turbo kind, engines aren’t even special anymore.

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > MrPseudonym 05/11/2015 at 10:54

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Because up until the most recent models they were some of the best driving cars on the road, period. They’ve lost their way a bit but the 2 series seems like a sign that they’re still looking out for people who want handling and luxury.

There’s also their straight 6 engines which are just absolute peaches. The 3.2L I6 in my M3 is quite possibly the best engine I’ve ever experienced. Both audibly and dynamically.

As for Porsche, I'm not sure either.

Lumpy44, Proprietor Of Fine Gif > MrPseudonym 05/11/2015 at 10:56

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I think the fact you can get a $1000 BMW or Porsche off CL or you can go buy one for $100,000 at a dealer means you just end up having a wide fan base.

Ash78, voting early and often > MrPseudonym 05/11/2015 at 10:57

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I drove my first E39 in the early 2000s and remember thinking “This is the only midsize car that needs to be made, ever, for everyone around the world.” It was just that good.

If it weren’t for the badge stigma and ridiculously broad product offerings (surely some are losing money and being supported by others), I would have had one years ago.

The reasons are often intangible, but there’s a feeling of automotive obsession that comes from most of their cars.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Logansteno: Bought a VW? 05/11/2015 at 11:00

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Porsches, for many years, have been highly regarding for their driving dynamics. Very similar to BMW, historically.

LongbowMkII > MrPseudonym 05/11/2015 at 11:01

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They used to have better dynamics than other sedans, even the base models. They would compromise more for sport than luxury. currently.... meh.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > MrPseudonym 05/11/2015 at 11:02

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Nothing else I’ve driven has done so quite like the Porsche’s I’ve driven. You have to drive one to understand.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > MrPseudonym 05/11/2015 at 11:03

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In my case, I wanted a great handling, powerful, fun car with RWD and a manual, and it needed to have four doors. There were only so many options, and only one had an engine that would rev past 8000k...

///Mvious > MrPseudonym 05/11/2015 at 11:05

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Well, first off, this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_New_C…

Then, exhibits B through D:

Sam > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather 05/11/2015 at 11:06

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The FWD is one single model they made, probably just an experiment.

And they’re about as reliable as any other car.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > ///Mvious 05/11/2015 at 11:07

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E:

Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire > MrPseudonym 05/11/2015 at 11:07

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Ban?

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather 05/11/2015 at 11:10

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I am afraid they are losing quite a bit of what made them special, what historically set them apart from the others...

LongbowMkII > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 05/11/2015 at 11:10

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no.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > E92M3 05/11/2015 at 11:10

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The feels...

LongbowMkII > E92M3 05/11/2015 at 11:11

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cars with 100+ hp are faster... weird.

Klaus Schmoll > MrPseudonym 05/11/2015 at 11:11

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Drive one on a twisting b road and you will understand.

KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs > MrPseudonym 05/11/2015 at 11:11

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Well, they *used* to build very good product that had an intent of something that a general enthusiast would like.

RWD, manual, inline six (or four, in the case of early BMWs like the 2002) engine in various body styles, not much else needed.

At some point in the 90s, BMW started moving upscale to be a premium brand, along with Mercedes. It used to be that German cars cost more because they had to ship them over from Yurrup (Tell that to my South Carolina built Z4). Look at old E30 BMWs, or even 2002s. The 1970 MSRP for a 2002 was $3,581. Adjusted for inflation, that would mean it is $21,792.32 in 2015 US dollars.

But now they cost more, because they can get away with charging that much for them. Do you even think that BMW/M-B/Audi would dare reduce US prices in response to the strengthening US Dollar vis-a-vis the Euro?

No. Now it’s chasing some “premium” consumer as opposed to those who appreciated fine engineering (which we didn’t get from the FoMoCo/GM/Mopar boys for the longest time).

Tripper > MrPseudonym 05/11/2015 at 11:12

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E92M3 said it the best. “You’ll never understand until you drive one”. I too fell into the same school of thought, thinking and saying things like “BMW’s are overpriced”, or “BMW’s are not reliable”. However, the reality is that both of my BMW’s were the most reliable cars I have ever owned (I too am on M3 #2). Most of the trash talk on BMW comes from people who “know” someone that had a BMW and it was the “worst car ever”, or people who just can’t get past the price tag. While I will agree that they are on the expensive side (especially if you buy new), I have probably saved myself some money by owning two. I never owned a car for more than 15 months before I had my first M3 (mazda protege, nissan sentra ser spec v, wrx, wrx sti). I owned the first M3 for just a hair over 7 years.

nermal > MrPseudonym 05/11/2015 at 11:12

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It all has to do with where BMWs fall on the Automotive Weiner Equivalence Scale.

For reference:

Vehicle : Weiner of typical driver

Big-ass Truck : Inadequate in size and function

Camry or Crossover : Adequate for purposes of procreation, but not pleasure

BMW : Functions only in short durations, for selfish pleasure. Usually leaves others feeling disappointed.

Hot Hatch: Spectacular in size and function.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Ash78, voting early and often 05/11/2015 at 11:13

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So you denied yourself such a sweet driving car just because of what others would think?

The stigma is real, for sure, but I’m not going to let something like that keep me from experiencing joy in my life. If a person judges me based solely on what I drive, that’s on them.

Tripper > LongbowMkII 05/11/2015 at 11:13

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Yes

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire 05/11/2015 at 11:13

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Ha!

LongbowMkII > Tripper 05/11/2015 at 11:18

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I guess if youre into mediocre supercars.

themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles > MrPseudonym 05/11/2015 at 11:19

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For Porsche - it is their fanatical devotion to racing. No automaker has won as many races over a variety of disciplines as Porsche. *Maybe* lancia has a claim. But let’s go through the list - numerous GT and Touring Car type titles with 911 cars. Numerous endurance and road racing titles with prototypes. Hillclimbs with spyder variants of their endurance cars. Can-Am with the 917. Dakar and rallying in general with the 911. If Porsche enters, they play to win and very rarely stop until they have beaten the rulebook to an inch of its life and then some. They have no qualms about rehashing a vw SUV to stuff some turbos in it and sell it to drum up a war chest to go racing with. Purity? Heritage? Winning le mans is heritage. 911s are just how they paid for their race cars.

Granted, they used the 911 to great success on the road as well. It is such a unique layout that the 911 has a certain feel and look you just can’t get in any other car because it is one of the very few unique vehicles left in the world. I can pull up any number if RWD luxury sport sedans. I can do the same for two seat, 4 cylinder sports cars. Luxury SUVs? A new one is launched every month. But a rear engined GT coupe? That’s Porsche. And only Porsche. The boxster and cayman are some of the very few mid engines cars out there, and definitely the most affordable these days. But even a base boxster will be a riot on the track.

MultiplaOrgasms > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather 05/11/2015 at 11:20

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If people cared about reliability on “luxury” cars they wouldn’t buy several million Range Rovers and Mercedes every year.

Also, name me five cars you can buy today with a straight six engine, that aren’t BMWs.

Ash78, voting early and often > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 05/11/2015 at 11:22

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I don’t generally care what people think, but I also don’t want to broadcast any unfair stereotypes, from “mechanics can take advantage of me” to “I’m a sorority girl” (or whatever BMW stigmas apply to your area).

If I wouldn’t feel comfortable taking a particular car to a rural mechanic in a strange town, it weighs against the car. Not completely, but in part. Further, around here BMWs are almost as common as Hondas, so the car would also lack the uniqueness I’m looking for.

So the stigma isn’t a dealbreaker, but it doesn’t help.

Bimmers over 10 years old get a break in my book. That’s enthusiast territory, most of the lessees are long gone.

E92M3 > LongbowMkII 05/11/2015 at 11:23

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But I was in a purpose built sports car with R Comps. They were in German versions of Accords and Altimas I thought. Mustang GT’s had the same power and I was passing them.

Tripper > LongbowMkII 05/11/2015 at 11:27

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I’m into driving

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Ash78, voting early and often 05/11/2015 at 11:28

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Mine’s an ‘08. Not quite there yet...

Mine’s also a silver sedan, so it probably does blend in with the crowd some, which I’m completely okay with. Q-ship FTW (although mine is not nearly as covert as an E39 M5).

finn's arm > LongbowMkII 05/11/2015 at 11:29

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E36’s seem to do better in autox’s i’ve been to (stock v. stock) & on courses w/ longer straights (Texas World Speedway). Same horsepower but more easily accessible torque band.

BKRM3 > LongbowMkII 05/11/2015 at 11:30

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I guess Niki Lauda likes mediocre supercars - because he bought his own to race in the Procar series at Monaco while ALSO racing F1 there the same weekend. In fact, he won the entire M1 series.

Mattbob > MrPseudonym 05/11/2015 at 11:32

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In my opinion, I like BMW because they make a practical RWD performance car. I’m more of a fan of their 4 door variants because there aren’t a lot of companies that combine the practicality with performance. Also, I like the look of most of them... Not so much the 2006 era ones though.

///Mvious > MrPseudonym 05/11/2015 at 11:32

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Oh, I’ve got more (thanks Kinja)

Well, first off:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_New_C…

http://www.petrolicious.com/i-drove-a-1970…

http://blog.caranddriver.com/bmws-m-garage-…

and these:

kinja

kinja

Oh, then they have a motorcycle division that has been pretty popular over the years:

kinja

Just a few reasons that you should:

LongbowMkII > BKRM3 05/11/2015 at 11:41

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not sure where I’m supposed to be convinced that makes it a great car. it beat other M1’s in a one make support series. woo. It was a failed project and the only good thing that came out of it was the engine.

thebigbossyboss > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 05/11/2015 at 11:42

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I can safely see we agree on this. That is why I drove my ford tempo with spinners. Smiles per miles off the charts. “Don’t let anyone tell you you can’t have fun, even in the most mundane automobile” - Raphael Orlove.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > ///Mvious 05/11/2015 at 11:46

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David E. Davis, Jr’s review of the 1968 BMW 2002:

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/1968-b…

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > thebigbossyboss 05/11/2015 at 11:48

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Nice!

MrPseudonym > Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire 05/11/2015 at 11:53

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Lol doitidareyouyoufreakingscrub imlikelevel15pristegeCOD ismokeweederreydaycantmesswitme

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > MrPseudonym 05/11/2015 at 11:59

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Just drive one, they are pretty fucking nice. I don’t have one because of cost, but if I could I’d be driving a newer 3 series right now and enjoying the heck out of the drive. I’ve never driven a Porsche, I’m pretty tall so I never would have fit in a pre 1990’s 911. They do however elicit in me certain primitive feeling that I also get when looking at a purpose built sports car like a 911, Dodge Viper, Corvette, etc...

FromCanadaWithLove > MrPseudonym 05/11/2015 at 12:09

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Ignore the badge for a second. Give the car a powerful engine, RWD, 50/50 balance, and a manual transmission; a big group of people will love that car. Give it to every car in the brand’s line-up, and a big group of people will love that brand. That solves BMW.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > LongbowMkII 05/11/2015 at 12:09

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FWIW, I originally posted the picture because of the design aesthetics of the car, to follow with the beautiful cars in the three pictures above. Clearly, BMW has had many more successful race cars.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > MrPseudonym 05/11/2015 at 12:13

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They make cars that sound and go like this:

http://oppositelock.jalopnik.com/brandy-new-tra…

MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner > MrPseudonym 05/11/2015 at 12:23

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lol

Don’t do anything for me.

And I think the grille looks stupid, always has.

LongbowMkII > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 05/11/2015 at 12:34

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Fair enough, not like the 507 set the world on fire. Although it should have .

aesthetics are subjective, I always found the M1’s style to be average. take wedge, add bmw kidney grill, Done.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > LongbowMkII 05/11/2015 at 13:05

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Yes, I’ll agree that others did the wedge better, but for a BMW-phile, there’s just something about a white car in racing trim with the tri-color stripes...

///Mvious > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 05/11/2015 at 13:37

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CLASSIC.

heliochrome85 > E92M3 05/11/2015 at 14:36

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this is the fucking truth. Letting my car stretch its legs on the autobahn only made me appreciate why it is engineered the way it is. I fucking love my car.

spanfucker retire bitch > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 05/11/2015 at 14:45

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They still are. I would go so far as to argue they are the kings of driving dynamics.

Go show me another car company that is able to produce ful-size SUVs like the Cayenne, crossovers like the Macan, and full size sedans like the Panamera perform so fucking amazing on a track.

Seriously, it’s practically physics defying how those vehicles operate in conditions that they should have no right operating that well in.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > spanfucker retire bitch 05/11/2015 at 14:52

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Porsche? Yeah - even with their new EPS system, they seem to have nailed it.

The one new car on the market that is the most want-inspiring for me is the Cayman GT4.

E92M3 > heliochrome85 05/11/2015 at 15:46

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Beautiful car!

Imagine if I had rented a VW Passat instead.

MultiplaOrgasms > LongbowMkII 05/12/2015 at 12:16

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You call it mediocre, everyone else calls it sensible. Think more of an NSX than a Countach.